Questioning Post: Part 5 - General Stuff

• As a child you always thought you’d either never get married or platonically marry a friend.

No, I don't think so.

• You think that because you could survive dating, marrying, and/or having sex with a man, you’re attracted to men (hint: you don’t have to settle for just surviving).

I don't know, I don't date. N/A

• The men in your fantasies are faceless or symbolise an emotion.

Possibly, yes.

• You don’t like fantasising about men. After fantasising about men you feel uncomfortable or wrong.

I don't know. Maybe?

• You think you have to learn how to love men.

I don't know? I don't think I've felt this way?

• You think men-attracted women over-exaggerate their attraction to men and you can’t comprehend finding a man as attractive as they do.

I have no idea. Sometimes? My friends/cousins always like these dudes that I think are way less attractive than them.

• You can’t imagine being so invested in a man/relationship with a man or valuing a man/relationship with a man as much as men-attracted women.

I don't know, honestly.

• Men expressing their attraction to men is more relatable than women expressing their attraction for men. (There’s something specific about same-gender attraction that any form of it is just more relatable than different gender attraction.)

I don't know? I certainly prefer m/m or f/f couples to f/m couples in media, but I think that that's because there's so few of them?

• You think you just have to give men a chance.

N/A, I don't date.

• You feel very uncomfortable reading or watching m/f erotica, or even just general m/f romantic interactions.

No, I don't think so? I haven't read m/f erotica in a while though, so. I watch het porn, and it doesn't make me uncomfortable as much as I just find it sort of boring.

• Other people tell you you’re acting like an over-invested lesbian ally or you feel like you are acting like an over-invested lesbian ally.

Not specifically a "lesbian ally," but it used to be this way before I started ID as bi.

• You think your relationships with men don’t work out because you’re bad at relationships in general.

N/A

• You think you just have high standards and that’s why you don’t want to date any men.

Possibly? A friend of mine did tell me I have "high standards" once.

• You think you’re just a late bloomer and will be attracted to men eventually.

No, I've had crushes on men/boys before.

• The only men you’re attracted to are those who hurt you, harass you, or abuse you.

When I was a kid I had a crush on boys that were cruel to me, but I haven't since. Men who are abusive or mean to me, tend to repulse me.

• You think it’s impossible for lesbians to have a happy future with women, but you think you could be the exception to the rule (this ties in with internalised homophobia).

N/A, I definitely think it's possible for wlw to be in happy, fulfilling relationships with other wlw.

• Do you love them because they’re your boyfriend or are they your boyfriend because you love them? If it’s the first, you might not actually be attracted to them.

 N/A, never had a boyfriend.

• You go through past memories trying to prove your attraction to men (”But I had a boyfriend when I was 13!”).

Yes, I do do that.

• You put yourself through having romantic or sexual relationships with men to prove to yourself and other people that you’re attracted to men.

N/A

• You know that lesbians exist but you think you can’t possibly be one of them because if you were, you’d know already - very common!

Yes, yeah.

• You think you’re attracted to men but just don’t want to date them.

Maybe? Yeah, Kind of.

• You don’t like kissing/touching/having sex with your husband/boyfriend or you’re not attracted to your husband/boyfriend, but it must be because he’s not the one for you (or another excuse).

N/A

• Most of your experiences with men are/were men being attracted to you, and you sort of going along with it.

N/A

• You find yourself wishing you could just have one hot fling with a woman just to try it out, or fantasise about it.

N/A, I already ID as bi.

• You think attraction is just “not being disgusted by a man.”

No? I don't think that's what I think attraction is? I think?

• You enjoy consuming f/f erotica a lot more than any other type, and find fantasising about women a lot more satisfying than any other fantasy.

Not particularly, I prefer m/m.

• You crave “platonic” physical contact with your female friends but wish that men would just leave you alone.

Yes, maybe? It has mostly been platonic (I think.)

• You’re only attracted to men whose attention would somehow be profitable (i.e. men in positions of power such as your boss).

N/A

• Deciding who to be attracted to, or asking people who you should crush on.

Perhaps? I'm not sure.

• You try to pursue your feelings for other women through going on “platonic dates” with women and “practising on women.”

N/A, I don't date and I already know I'm bi. I've never been into the whole "practicing" thing.

• You think you’re too young/busy to be attracted to men or have a fulfilling relationship with a man.

Maybe? Yes?

• “I would totally date [x woman] if they were a guy!! ! !!”

I don't think I've said that in my life,  no.

• You have abstract crushes that you don’t actually want to progress into romantic and/or sexual relationships - very common.

Yes, I think so?

• You date men because it’s what you’re supposed to do, and stay with them because you can’t find a good reason to break up.

N/A

• You really want to be a lesbian and only date women but feel like you can’t because of some lingering, vague idea of attraction to men, but the idea of dating a man is distressing, gross, upsetting, boring, unsatisfying, or makes you feel trapped.

I don't know, maybe?

• Being very specific with the men you’re “interested” in but having absolutely no type when it comes to girls because they’re all so beautiful.

I honestly have no clue. Maybe?

• You wish your boyfriend/husband was more like a female friend.

N/A

• It seems like you have to force yourself to find guys attractive, have crushes on them, etc.

Sometimes? Maybe?

• You feel grossed out by/neutral towards heterosexual romance, but not romance between women.

No, I don't think so? I mean perhaps irl, I feel neutral and sometimes grossed out. In media, it's fine. Sometimes I really like het couples even.

• You couldn’t imagine yourself being in a very long-term relationship with/married to a man.

I don't know? Maybe?

• You feel like you could have a romantic relationship with a man but not a sexual relationship, or vice versa.

Yes, vice versa.

• Your attraction to men feels less real than your attraction to women, and it feels much more forced.

I have no idea. Sometimes I doubt my attraction to women too.

Conclusion:

I suppose this was helpful to an extent, but overall I'm still confused. Now I'm both uncomfortable saying I'm bi, because what if I'm not actually bi?; but I'm also not quite comfortable calling myself gay/lesbian either, so that's great! /sarcasm

I wish I had more experience with relationships so I could know for sure. I know that's not technically a requirement, but at this point I'm not sure what else I could do to "test," who I'm attracted to.

Questioning Post: Part 4 - Straightness and Gender

• Having a lot of conflicting gender feelings that are only possible to resolve once you understand you are/can be a lesbian.

I do have complicated feelings about gender, but I'm not sure if this is applicable since idrk if I'm a lesbian yet. Maybe?

• Thinking that being GNC and feeling a disconnect from traditional womanhood means that you can’t be a woman, even if that’s what feels closest to right. Many lesbians are GNC and many lesbians feel disconnected from traditional womanhood since it’s so bound up in the heteropatriarchy.)

I'm not GNC, but I did/do feel some disconnect from womanhood, so... maybe?

• Knowing you’re attracted to women and not being able to parse that (esp + any gender non-conformance) as gay, taking a long time to figure out if you’re a straight man or a lesbian.

I did consider being a trans man for a hot second, but I mostly feel like this is N/A. Though perhaps this is about trans women and not me?

• Being dysphoric about the parts of you that make straight men think your body is owed to them, having to figure out what that dysphoria means for/to you.

Sort of? Not sure.

• Knowing you’re attracted to women, but feeling weirdly guilty and uncomfortable trying to interact with them as a straight man, and only later realizing you’re actually a trans lesbian.

N/A, I'm not trans.

• Knowing you’re gay, but experiencing a lot of the symptoms of comp het or coercive heteronormativity, when you try to interact with men romantically and/or sexually, and only later realizing you’re a trans lesbian and not a gay man.

N/A

• Being non binary and taking a long time to sort through being able to respect/understand your non binary identity and your lesbianness at the same time

N/A, I stopped ID as nb.

• Thinking that all straight girls feel at least some attraction to women

Sort of? I definitely used to think that.

• Thinking that your interest in seeing attractive women/scantily clad women/boobs is an artificial reaction caused by the objectification of women in media.

Yes, yes.

• Being really into how women look “aesthetically”/“just as artistic interest.”

Yes, before I started ID-ing as bi.

• Thinking it’s objective and uncontested that almost all women are way more attractive than most men.

Yes, doesn't everyone? Even my grandma thinks that, and I'm pretty sure she's straight unless she's a deeply closeted bi.

• Being a really intense LGBT+ “ally” and getting weirdly emotional about homophobia but assuming you’re just a Really Good Ally and very empathetic.

Yes, before I started identifying as bi.

• Having like half your friend group turn out to be LGBT+.

Don't have a lot of friends right now, so this is N/A.

• Getting emotional or having a strong reaction you don’t understand to f/f love stories etc.

Yes, and m/m as well.

• Having had people think you were gay when you had no suspicion you were gay.

There were people who thought I was bi, does that count?

Questioning Post: Part 3 - Women and Attraction

• Feeling like you could live with a woman in a romantic way, even if you can’t imagine doing anything sexual with a woman.

I've identified as bi for a while, so I can imagine both. N/A

• Feeling like you could enjoy sexual interaction with a woman, even if you can’t imagine having romantic feelings for a woman.

N/A

• Thinking you couldn’t be a lesbian because you’re not attractive enough, cool enough, or otherwise in the same league as most of the women you know

Yes.

• Interacting with het sex/romance in media by imagining yourself in the man’s position or just never/rarely imagining yourself in the woman’s position.

Maybe. Yes?

• Really focusing on the women in heterosexual porn.

Yes!!

• Being really into the idea of kissing/being sexual with a woman ‘to turn guys on.’

Uh, no. I definitely don't think so.

• Being really annoyed when guys actually do express interest in watching or joining in when you do that

N/A

• Only feeling/expressing attraction to or sexual interest in women when you’re inebriated or otherwise impaired.

No, I identify as bi already. Also, I don't drink or take drugs, so this is N/A as well.

• Seeing a relationship between two women elicits a much stronger and more real emotional reaction than het relationships ever do.

Yes, I think so?

• You get anxiety around men and feel more comfortable in settings with women.

Eh, depends? Maybe?

• You have very high standards for men you might date, and comparatively lower standards when it comes to women.

I don't know. I do have a very specific type of women that I'm attracted to, but I am also attracted to other types of women sometimes so.

• Being mistaken for a couple with one of your (girl) friends is exciting for you, and being mistaken for a couple with one of your (guy) friends elicits no reaction or feels weird or wrong.

I have no idea, tbqh.

• None of your girl friend’s partners are ever good enough for them, and you take it very personally, and you don’t feel the same way about the men you’re friends with.

No? Pretty much none of this I think.

• Wanting to be a lesbian, but feeling like if you don’t already know you are one you can’t be.

Yes? Maybe?

• Feeling guilty about wanting to be a lesbian, feeling like you’re just attention-seeking or trying to be trendy.

Yes? I also felt this way about being bi, being nb (which I'm not) and being on the ace/aro spectrum.

• You think, or fear, that you might be a lesbian, and you find yourself somewhat constantly/desperately trying to prove to yourself that you’re not.

Maybe? I don't know. Not fear per se, but I do question sometimes, and then try to prove I'm not.

• Suppressing your lesbian dreams, because you think exploring that desire would mean you’re a bad/homophobic person using lesbian-ness selfishly.

I don't really understand what this means.

• Wishing you were a lesbian to escape the discomfort of dating men

N/A, I don't date

• Fantasizing about how much fun it would be to be a lesbian and just be with women/a specific woman, but thinking that can’t be for you

I don't know? I already ID as bi, so N/A

• Worrying that some of your past attraction to men was actually real so you can’t be a lesbian

Yes, definitely.

• Worrying that because you can’t be 100% sure you’re not attracted to men, and can’t be 100% sure you won’t change your mind, you can’t be a lesbian.

YESS!!!

• Worrying that you only want to be a lesbian because of trauma, and that means your lesbian-ness would be Fake.

I don't think so? I do have some trauma, but I can't discern how much it's affected me.

• Worrying that trauma-induced complications in how you experience sex (e.g., a habit of self-harming via sex w men or a fear of any sex at all) mean you’re not a Real Lesbian(TM).

N/A, I don't have sex.

Questioning Post: Part 2 - Relationships with Men

• Dreading what feels like an inevitable domestic future with a man.

Kind of? I think so, I don't know.

• Or looking forward to an idealized version of it that resembles literally no m/f relationship you’ve ever seen in your life, never being able to picture any man you’ve actually met in that image.

Mmm, I guess this too?

• You have every reason to be happy in your relationship with a man, but you just aren’t / everything is going really well, but something is missing and you can’t figure out what.

N/A, I haven't dated anyone.

• Being repulsed by the dynamics of most/all real life m/f relationships you’ve seen and/or regularly feeling like “maybe it works for them but I never want my relationship to be like that.”

Yes? I'm kind of leaning towards yes on this one.

• Thinking you’re commitment-phobic because no relationship, no matter how great the guy, feels quite right and you drag your feet when it comes time to escalate it.

N/A

• Going along with escalation because it seems like the ‘appropriate time’ or bc the guy wants it so bad, even if you personally aren’t quite ready to say I love you or have labels or move in together etc.

N/A

• Or jumping ahead and trying to rush to the ‘comfortably settled’ part of relationships with guys, trying to make a relationship a done deal without investing time into emotional closeness

N/A

• Your relationships with men are devoid of passion.

N/A

• Feeling like you have to have relationships with guys and/or let them get serious in order to prove something, maybe something nebulous you can’t identify.

Maaaaybe? Not sure if this applies either.

• Only having online relationships with guys; preferring not to look at the guys you’re interacting with online; choosing not to meet up with a guy even if you seem very into him and he reciprocates and meeting up is totally realistic.

Oh, god, this hits a bit too close. Yes?

• Getting a boyfriend mostly so other people know you have a boyfriend and not really being interested in him romantically/sexually.

N/A

• Wishing your boyfriend was more like your female friends.

N/A

• Wishing your boyfriend was less interested in romance and/or sex with you and that you could just hang out as pals.

N/A

• Thinking you’re really in love with a guy but being able to get over him in such record time that you pretend to be more affected than you are so your friends don’t think you’re heartless.

N/A

• After a breakup, missing having a boyfriend more than you miss the specific guy you were with.

N/A

• Worrying that you’re broken inside and unable to really love anyone

Perhaps? A little, but that's also a common aro feeling which is something I think/thought I am.

• Having sex not out of desire for the physical pleasure or emotional closeness. but because you like feeling wanted.

N/A

• OR: preferring to ‘be a tease’ to feel wanted but feeling like following through is a chore.

N/A

• Having to be drunk or high to have sex with men.

N/A, I don't drink or take drugs and I've never had sex.

• The idea of kissing, cuddling, dating and/or having sex with men is really scary/anxiety inducing, and the idea of doing any of those things with women isn’t (or is noticeably less scary).

Perhaps? I have no idea, tbh!

• Your fantasies about men still somehow turn out to be a little gay. Maybe you’re penetrating him, you don’t have to look at his face/don’t want to look at his face, you want a threesome with another woman, he’s very feminine, etc. It might be a “straight fantasy” but you’ve altered it in a way straight people might not be totally interested in.

I don't think so, but I have very few fantasies where I imagine myself with anyone, I prefer to imagine other people having sex. No?

• Thinking because you don't like/pursue sex with men you must be asexual. Or vice versa with romance for men.

I did think I was demisexual at one point, does that count?

• Your fantasies about men give you intense distress or anxiety. They could be intrusive thoughts, forms of self-harm, or otherwise.

I don't think so? Certainly not "intense anxiety," no.

• When I think about guys, I think about all the things that I could tolerate doing with them (dating, kissing, sex, marriage), but always in terms of what I could force myself to do, not what I want to do.

No? I don't think so, but again I haven't dated, so.

• Being around guys that are interested in me gives me intense anxiety.

Kind of? Yes.

• Feeling weird/wrong calling your past boyfriends pet names or showing them PDA, but gladly showing your girl friends PDA.

N/A, but I've always been okay with showing an acceptible amount of pda to my friends, who are girls.

• Only being comfortable with sex with men if there’s an extreme power imbalance and your desires aren’t centred.

N/A Does only being interested in "intense" porn scenarios count?

• Using sex with men as a form of self-harm.

N/A

• You don’t have much of an emotional reaction to kissing or being otherwise physical with a man, or you even dislike/hate it.

N/A

• Feeling numb or dissociating or crying during/after sex with men (even if you don’t understand that reaction and/or think you’re fine and crying etc for no reason).

N/A

• Being bored with sex with men/not understanding what the big deal is that makes other women want it.

N/A

• Doing it anyway out of obligation or a desire to be a good sport/do something nice for him.

N/A

• Never/rarely having sexual fantasies about specific men, preferring to leave them as non-detailed as possible, or not thinking about men at all while fantasizing

Not never, but yes.

• Having to make a concerted effort to fantasize about the guy you’re “attracted” to.

Yes, usually.

• Early interest in women

I believe I had crushes on girls as young as 7-8, but I didn't recognize them as crushes at the time. I did feel more comfortable around girls when I was younger.

• Not recognizing past/current crushes on women until you’ve come to grips with your attraction to women.

Yes!

• Being unusually competitive, shy, or eager to impress specific women, when you’re not that way with anyone else.

Mmm, kind of? Maybe?

• Wanting to kiss your female best friend on the mouth for literally any reason (”to practice for boys” included)

No, I've never really wanted to do that, too afraid to come off as gay, I suppose. Also I've always wanted my first kiss to mean something, as cheesy as that sounds.

• Getting butterflies or feeling like you can’t get close enough when cuddling with a close female friend.

Yes.

• Looking at a close female friend and feeling something in your chest clench up and being overwhelmed with love for her - love you may read as platonic

Yes.

• Having had strong and abiding feelings of admiration for a specific female teacher, actor, etc., growing up that were deep and reverent

Possibly?

• Having had an unusually close relationship with a female friend growing up that was different and special in a way you couldn’t articulate

Yes, several times, but I already know I like women.

• Thinking relationships would be simpler “if only I were attracted to women/my best friend who would be perfect for me if she/I weren’t a girl”

Not particularly, no. But then again, I've never been in a relationship.

• When a female friend is treated badly by a man, having your protective thoughts turn in the direction of “if I was him/a man I’d never do that to her/my girlfriend!”

Yes, maybe?

• Being utterly fascinated by any lesbians you know/see in media and thinking they’re all ultra cool people

Utterly fascinated no, but I've definitely been fascinated with queer women in media. Let's say maybe.

• Having your favourite character in every show be that one gay-coded or butch-looking woman (like Shego from Kim Possible or Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica).

Sort of? Yes.

• Feeling weirdly guilty and uncomfortable in locker rooms etc., when your female friends are less clothed than they normally would be around men and being more careful not to look than they are.

I haven't been in a locker room since I was in high school, and I can't remember anything specific? Maybe? This definitely happened once when I was having a crush on a girl, and we had to dress/undress in the same space.

Questioning Post: Part 1 - Internalized Homophobia

So lately I've been kind of questioning whether I am actually bi, or perhaps a lesbian, so I decided to go over some of the common signs you could be gay and record how I feel.

I am making this for me so I have a record of how I feel, please don’t reblog this. All the ‘questions’ are from this google doc.

• Deciding which guys to be attracted to – not to date, but to be attracted to – based on how well they match a mental list of attractive qualities. You have a ‘list’ of impossible criteria in your head that a man must meet for you to be attracted to him, and if you ever meet someone who matches all the criteria you just add more impossible standards.

This has definitely happened to me. I'm not sure about the last, bur I've definitely tried to 'force' myself to be attracted to someone I felt I should be attracted to. Yes.

• I’m constantly testing my attraction to men. I pick one or more conventionally attractive men in the room, and try to force myself to be attracted to them.

Not constantly, but yes? Definitely yes.

• I like the idea of being with a man, but any time a man makes a move on me I get incredibly uncomfortable.

This one trips me, because on one hand, that's kind of true, but on the other hand perhaps it was just that the situation in question was uncomfortable (I mean does anyone like being hit on by strangers on the street? Not catcalling, I mean, being stopped and talked to and complimented by a stranger.) and/or the man in question was unattractive to me. So, maybe?

• I do not like the reality of men, only the idea of being with men.

I can't actually say. Maybe? I'm leaning towards yes, because I've more or less freaked out whenever anyone has suggested I could actually pursue a man or he could pursue me, but I'm still not entirely sure.

• I like the idea of marrying a man/being in a relationship with a man, but I can always pick out a reason to not want to date any man that is interested in me or any man suggested to me. These reasons are sometimes reasonable, but often insignificant (i.e. “I don’t like guys who do their hair like that, he has a weird mole on his face, he’s too tall”).

This one is true. I've never pursued any man I was interested in or was suggested to me since I was like... ten. 

• I can fantasize about men and find men attractive, but thinking about realistically being with a man makes my stomach churn.

I don't really understand the way the term 'realistically' is being used here. Are we talking about a real man I actually know in real life, who might be interested in me? Thinking about being with Ryan Reynolds doesn't make my stomach churn, but at the same time, I know I could never actually be with Ryan Reynolds. Soooo.... maybe?

• Only developing attraction to a guy after a female friend expresses attraction to him.

Hm. No? I don't know, but I'm leaning towards no.

• I like getting attention from men and being validated in my attractiveness, but the moment it goes from attention to an interaction (i.e. from flirting to asking out) I start panicking.

I guess kind of, but I also can't remember the last time this happened with someone I would be comfortable dating at least in theory (aka not a complete stranger.) So maybe?

• Getting jealous of a specific female friend’s relationships with guys and assuming you must be attracted to the guys she’s with (even if you never really noticed them before she was interested in them).

I don't remember this happening to me, the guys my female friends like are definitely not my type. I guess this is implying I'm having a crush on the female friend in question, but I haven't had a crush on a female friend since I was 14/15 and I didn't realize that was a crush at the time. Idk what to say to this. No, but I already know I like women.

• You view relationships with men as a chore, burden, or just something you must deal with.

Never had a relationship with a man. I don't know.

• You get crushes on just about every guy you’re friendly with, because there’s really no difference between friendships and crushes to you. (Confusing a strong emotional connection/dependency with a man for romantic feelings, can be due to mental illness.)

Mmm, never had a lot of male friends, but when I've had I thought I had crushes on them, so? Yes?

• You feel like you could theoretically be attracted to men (you may even have fantasies about them), but in practice you never have any feelings for them.

Mmm. I guess, but I also haven't had feelings for anyone in a while, so? Maybe? 

• Picking a guy at random to be attracted to.

I don't really understand this one. How do you define random? Perhaps.

• Choosing to be attracted to a guy at all, not just choosing to act on it, but flipping your attraction on like a switch – that’s a common lesbian thing.

*exhales* Maybe?

• Having such high standards that literally no guy meets them – and feeling no spark of attraction to any guy who doesn’t meet them.

My (straight) friend once told me I have high standards so? Yes? Maybe?

• You’re far more certain about being attracted to women than you are about being attracted to men.

I don't know. Sometimes I question my attraction to women too.

• Only/mostly being into guys who are gender nonconforming or feminine in some way.

Mostly, but definitely not only. Yes?

• Alternatively, the guys I like are always a hyper masculine man’s man who embodies everything about manliness.

Sometimes, not always. Maybe?

• You want to date/fall in love/get married/have kids/etc with a guy, but the guy you dream about is never specific, and may as well be a cardboard cutout.

I guess? Maybe, leaning toward yes.

• All of my fantasies around men are always with faceless, nameless men; the more realistic the fantasy and the more details about my partner I invent, the less excited and into the fantasy I become.

Okay, yeah, this one is pretty true. Sometimes with celebrity men/fictional characters it's fine, but when I think about real men I actually know? Yes.

• Only/mostly being attracted to unattainable, disinterested, or fictional guys or guys you never or rarely interact with. (Such as teachers, married or older men, and men that live far away.)

I guess true, but I feel like that also mostly applies to women as well? I don't know. Yes?

• Similar to only crushing on famous or fictional men, the men you like may be gay or in relationships as they are also unattainable (if they are in a relationship, you may even start to wonder if it’s actually the woman you have a crush on.)

No, but refer to the previous question.

• You lose all attraction or get extremely uncomfortable if there are any implications that they might like you back. You get deeply uncomfortable and losing all interest in these unattainable guys if they ever indicate they might reciprocate

Perhaps? I don't think this has ever happened though, so I can't say.

• You mistake the desire for male approval as attraction. You don’t necessarily want a relationship with men, but you want men to want a relationship with you.

I don't know.

• Reading your anxiety/discomfort/nervousness/combativeness around men as attraction to them. Confusing your anxiety around men for “butterflies” or being flustered.

Perhaps? This might've happened.

• Reading a desire to be attractive to men as attraction to them.

Maybe? I don't know.

• Having a lot of your ‘guy’ crushes later turn out to be trans women.

Not a lot of them, but it has happened, yes. (*cough cough* ContraPoints!)

• You wish you weren’t attracted to men / You wish you were a lesbian.

I've never specifically wished I was a lesbian. I was wishing I was bi/pan at one point. Maybe once or twice, but in a very abstract sort of way? I guess, maybe.